Kelsey (00:00)
All right, welcome to the Working Enneagram YouTube channel, where we talk about the Enneagram in the context of work. I am your host, Kelsey Taylor. And today we are talking about the communication style of the Enneagram Type 7. I love sevens, so I'm super excited about this conversation. And I have brought with me two Enneagram sevens, JT and Melissa. JT, Melissa, welcome to the show.
Jt (00:24)
Howdy!
Melissa Corkum (00:25)
So glad to be here.
Jt (00:26)
Thanks for having
us.
Kelsey (00:27)
Yeah, I'm glad to have you guys. really, I think this is going to be a lot of fun and true Enneagram 7 fashion. And I'm excited for people to get to hear from two sevens, both a male and a female, of what the world looks like in a work context, but also we might hear some personal context too. So before we jump into all of that good stuff, I want to give an overview of what the Enneagram 7 is. And I would say sevens are energetic.
optimistic. I think they're very curious, very ⁓ fast processors, fast thinkers. They love possibilities. They love new experiences. I think they love things that are just fun and exciting mentally stimulating. I think at their best, they bring the workplace a lot of joy. They are very positive and uplifting.
I think my son is an Enneagram 7 and he is a good buddy. He's like a hype man and I think sevens can be that the hype person. So they love to be in positive experiences, but they also love to elevate other people and positive experiences. Under stress, they may avoid some of the boring or mundane tasks and they may move quickly from one thing to the next just to kind of escape feeling limited or stuck.
So JT, anything you would add to that?
Jt (01:54)
Yeah, absolutely. All of that. ⁓ Yeah, anytime there's a bit of friction, it's like, yeah, okay, time to move along or around this. Definitely do not hit it head on as often as I should because it's just not that fun. And there's got to be a different way of doing it. So, yeah, I avoid any friction or any, yes. And hype man, yeah, all the things you said, yes.
Kelsey (02:19)
Cool, okay. Melissa, what about you? Would you add anything?
Melissa Corkum (02:23)
Yeah, I think all of that resonates, a lot of that resonates with me. I do think there's a spectrum of kind of like how we show up in the world. I think ⁓ a lot of spaces in my life, I don't show up with as much enthusiasm perhaps as any Gram 7s have been. Like they're stereotypical, but I mean, I can feed off of someone's energy. So just give me enough, you know,
reason to kind of get out there. But I think, and maybe this is a gender difference, but I think I've learned how to come into a room with a little less energy and just kind of feel out like what's acceptable.
Kelsey (03:04)
That's well said. I do think not to go too deep, but there are different subtypes for the seven that can look very different. So there's one element, but I do think there is gender differences as well. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Just the nuance of differences that we can all have the same motivations and still appear very differently. So thank you for that, Melissa. That's good. Very well said.
Jt (03:25)
Melissa did a lot
better job of summarizing that. I definitely would steal some of those too.
Kelsey (03:33)
No, you did a great job. Y'all both.
Jt (03:34)
Well, no, because I
agree with what she said. I can't be on every time. There's no way. You got to read the room and I don't know. I'm sure we'll get into this kind of stuff because yes, I try to dictate how excited I'm going to be by controlling that somewhat of what the atmosphere is going to be. So creating the atmosphere that I want to be a part of.
Kelsey (04:00)
Okay, well let's keep this going a little bit. So ⁓ JT, tell me how you know you're an Enneagram type seven. What are some things that you feel like pull out the sevenness? What would you say?
Jt (04:14)
Well,
definitely a dreamer. can't, I mean, if you were to look at my chat GPT right now, there's like 50 business ideas on there that I want to, to Institute and like goofy community events. And I'm like, how would I do this? So yes, I can not stick on one idea and just see it through. Like, like I said, if there's starting to be friction or not that I won't, but
It's like, okay, I need to think about something else. Why? So I don't just get stuck in the mud. So that's how know I'm a seven. I can sit still, but my brain cannot sit still. I got to figure out some way to lighten the mood. I'm definitely not a drama person. So if drama starts to happen, I either retreat from it or I make light of it. And obviously with respect, I try not to disrespect people, but I try to, yes.
anything that there's friction or stress or anything, no thanks. I will find a way to limit that or get out of it.
Kelsey (05:23)
For sure big-time dreamer drama avoider. I love it. That's really good most I hope at you. How do you know you're seven?
Melissa Corkum (05:32)
When I, well, first of all, I thought I was a one for a long time, which maybe we'll get into. I learned about the Enneagram in a really stressful time in my life. And so it took me a while to figure out I was a seven. ⁓ But I think now that I've like reflected on it for a while, the reframing thing, I can look back and see I've been doing that intuitively my entire life. And I do it.
Now I'm a little bit more aware of it, but it happens so fast. I think the other thing, like looking backwards, Kelsey, I have had, I think, two W-2 jobs in my entire life. And one of them was a high school, like part-time job. I've literally been like self-employed or a contractor my entire life. ⁓ And I don't think I'll ever be able to like work for anyone ever again.
Kelsey (06:23)
That's incredible. Do y'all think that that is very, would y'all say that's pretty common for any Graham-Sevens to have this entrepreneurial, more, less W2 work?
Jt (06:36)
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I guess if I look, I mean, W2 is like you're coloring between the lines and I am not in the lines. Like, lines do not, I do not put myself in a box by any stretch. do not like it. Said I don't like being controlled. I don't want to be like, sound like I'm a control freak, I like to con... Once again, as I said before, like I like to create spaces.
in times where I am comfortable. So having my own job and creating my own business. Granted, I'm sure Melissa can attest to this and you as well. It's not like you're comfortable running your own business. It's stressful and hard, but it's I'm the boss. So I can only be happy with myself or frustrated with myself. I probably don't do well with and maybe Melissa can attest to this like
I create the spots that I want to be in, but that can create a ton of stress because I put a lot of, like, I want it to be perfect and I don't want, if someone does a lame job, like, it's like, if it's lame, it's on me. I, yeah, so I just try to control things, but not in a controlling way. I just like to set things up to be fun. I don't know. I felt like I just talked in a circle there.
Kelsey (08:02)
No, I'm tracking, I'm following. think, have you all seen those reels where it's like, left my nine to five job so that I could work 70 hours a week or something like that as a... ⁓
Melissa Corkum (08:14)
Yeah, so basically
I could work all the time and like think about work all the time. Yes. But on my own terms, right? But on my own terms, like JT said, it's not less, like it's not less stress necessarily. In a lot of ways it's more stress, but like I only have myself to blame. I haven't always been this way, but I'm currently a solopreneur. And so to like your point, JT, like I'm fine with taking responsibility for what rises or falls, but I just don't want to have to answer.
Kelsey (08:18)
Exactly, it makes me
Jt (08:19)
Yeah, something like
that.
Melissa Corkum (08:43)
to anyone else right now.
Jt (08:45)
Yeah, answering
other people is just, can't do it. And I think maybe it happened for me because I got right out of college and my dad needed help. So I never, I had a job at Best Buy for a few months. My probably only real, real job working at a college in the lunchroom and stuff. Yeah, it's a job, but not really. So actually going to somewhere and someone telling me what to do. Same thing as Melissa. I've had probably two of those.
in 25 years. And I already was like, each time I'm like, no, I don't know how people do this. I just, once again, I'm always looking for the next thing. I can't look for the next thing if I have to be responsible to someone else. Like I'm only responsible to me. And if my business rises and falls, I'm there to, you know, pat myself on the back or pick myself up.
And I'm fine with that. I don't want someone else to have to do that. Or I don't want to do that for someone else.
Kelsey (09:51)
Yeah, makes total sense, total sense. Speaking of your businesses, I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you do. So JT, you go first. Tell me about your work.
Jt (10:00)
I have a small general contracting business. And since that wasn't enough, I added a soon to be grill slash catering slash community thing like that. and that's, mean, like I said, I'm still not enough with that. I'm on chat GPT all the time trying to figure out. And maybe Melissa can attest to this is I'm not satisfied. There's gotta be a code I can crack.
where it can be a little easier to make, I don't need to be rich. I don't want to be rich because that requires a whole bunch of effort I don't want to give. But there's got to be a better job that I enjoy. And so I'm constantly cycling through. I mean, this is how I make money now, but there's got to be a better, more fun, simpler way that, and that's what I'm always searching for, which means I never do everything or anything
particularly like awesome. It's always good, but it's not like perfect because I'm not singularly focused. Like maybe one, like if you started a business, like by golly, it's going to be like this, this and this. I'm not, I'm going to see it through. I'll see it through, but it takes me a while. I wander around and then I circle back. I don't know. I'm sure Melissa probably has similar experiences.
So that's the two things I do at the moment, and I'm sure there'll be more that I will continue to add.
Kelsey (11:30)
That's great. That's great. Moissa, jump in. What do do for work or any responses to what JT said?
Melissa Corkum (11:37)
Yeah, so someone recently told me that the list of businesses I haven't run is probably shorter than the ones that I have. But currently, currently, I run a coaching business and I specialize in ⁓ parent burnout and I train ⁓ professionals in the caring professions like mental health, child welfare, education, and then I also work directly with
Kelsey (11:46)
Incredible.
Melissa Corkum (12:06)
families, the majority of my caseload are foster and adaptive families. The type of parent burnout that I specialize in is called blocked care. And just because of some life circumstances recently, like I've been forced to kind of focus on something in order to make it work. And ⁓ that hasn't always been the case, which is probably why the list of past businesses is a mile long. ⁓ And
That being said, I literally just applied for a contract position for the summer, because it looked like something, to JT's point, that I could do in my sleep and would still make decent money. ⁓ And I feel like the work that I do is very not seven. It's holding hard stories. ⁓ In some ways, it's also a spiritual practice of vocation and spiritual practice wrapped up into one. And I firmly believe God
put me here and I think like every time I get distracted and I'm like trying to do something else and the doors keep closing it's like Jonah and Nineveh like he's like no this is where I want you like stop trying to like do something else and and I would have never picked this as my vocation because there's very little fun about it like I mean the the highs are high like when when I make a difference and I get like a email from some family who's like my gosh you like saved our
lives or whatever, like that's amazing. But like the day in and day out of the hard is like, like constantly on Instagram and like, I'm like people pay people to like tell them what colors to wear. I'm like, I got into the wrong profession.
Kelsey (13:47)
Amazing.
Melissa Corkum (13:47)
Clearly
I can be doing so many other fun things to make money, but yeah, that's what I'm doing right now
Kelsey (13:54)
I did pay somebody to tell me what colors to wear. So yes, if that is a business that you're interested in, ⁓ people like me do pay for that. So you're 100 % on for that one. You mentioned this, I'm always fascinated when sevens go into work that requires them to hold hard or heavy stories. So what sustains you through that heaviness? Because you mentioned it's not a typical Enneagram seven job, so to speak.
Melissa Corkum (14:25)
So I have worked really hard to design a business that feels sustainable to me. like I don't do, like I don't coach on Zoom anymore. I tried it, I felt like it was gonna kill me. ⁓ I do all my coaching on Marco Polo. So it's like, it's when I want to, I can listen. When I don't want to, I don't. I can take as much time as I want to respond. I can also multitask to do it. So like I listen to a lot of client messages while I'm driving because that's not productive time any other way ⁓ or when I'm walking.
⁓ And I can also respond when I'm driving or walking and I can do it from anywhere I want in the world. Like I don't have to put clients on hold to like travel or do things, right? I just listen in the airport or on the plane or, you know, in some other country. And so I've worked really hard to build a business that doesn't feel limiting.
Kelsey (15:17)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's wonderful. The Marco poloing is genius. I never would have thought about that and I can see how it works. So that's wonderful. Thanks, Melissa. Really well said, both of y'all. It's good. Okay.
Jt (15:31)
with Marco Polo
Melissa Corkum (15:32)
yeah, it's a video messaging app. folks, and it works really well because my parents that I serve are usually like weighing over their heads in terms of stress and kids behaviors and all the things. And so it works really well for them to be able to reach out to me in real time when they have the question or have the situation going on and then I can respond. you know, I also get, I like it because you get the...
inflection and the I can read their facial expressions like versus like texting or something like that, right? So it's like, it's like zoom, but like asynchronous and it's great.
Jt (16:02)
sure.
Kelsey (16:10)
Yeah, it's wonderful. Highly recommend for friendships or Melissa sharing wisdom for people out there coaching who hate Zoom. Like seriously, like I do too. So thank you for that ⁓ idea. That's great. Okay, let's transition into the communication style of the seven. So communication style has often been described as very positive. ⁓
enthusiastic, sometimes a little scattered. So JT, do you agree with that? Disagree? What would you add?
Jt (16:42)
yeah, definitely. Well, definitely scattered for sure. And I think, yes, happy. Once again, no drama. So I try to read the room or read the person or any, especially with what I do with contracting, you you have to read the person. So that involves a lot. And then trying to, I always try and lead with a joke or be affable or I mean, cause I don't like uncomfortable silence. I don't like being uncomfortable.
And so I try to be as easy going. And you know this from seeing like my helping me with my page. I try to keep it as light. I mean, with the name of my business, I wanted people to know right away. Okay. This guy is, I do run a serious business, but I am not a serious person. It's kind of what I want to let people know. Like I'm serious about things, but I'm not a serious person. Like things obviously matter to me, but I just.
The older I'm getting and with what happened last year, like for lack of a better, I won't say the actual word, but my BS meter is way higher and I have no time of day for it. And I want people to call me on my own like, hey, wait, like, yes, yes, please do that because I don't want to, yeah, I just can't stand that stuff. And so I try to, yes, make people feel comfortable by either making myself look dumb or something, you know.
That's easy to me. just don't care anymore. So it's not going to offend me if I look stupid or whatever. I mean, I don't care.
Kelsey (18:22)
Yeah. OK, I'm going to touch on a couple of things here because there are a few things that you said I want to piece together a little bit. This may be some of the scattered communication that you were just talking about, but I'm going to piece them all together here, hopefully.
Jt (18:34)
Please do.
Kelsey (18:35)
one, you mentioned your business wanting to be very lighthearted. So for those who are unaware, I don't think we mentioned before, but JT's business name ⁓
Crafty Handy and Slightly Handsome.
Jt (18:46)
It
was my business name. But yes, yes, that's been my business name. So yes, I want to be people to know right off the bat. Once again, it's a business, but he is not a, I don't, that might sound dumb, like I'm not a serious person, but I just want people to know like, okay, very approachable. That's kind of what, that's maybe what I should have said. I try to be very approachable to anyone because I don't care for drama. So it's like,
Kelsey (18:49)
was.
Jt (19:15)
If I have to talk to this person, I'm gonna make sure that I'm enjoying it as much as possible. If I'm enjoying it, and just I'm sure the other way, people think the, you know, like, if I have to talk to this person, I have to talk to them. I don't want them to be uncomfortable. So I try to find where that spot is, like, okay, most people, most people want to be in a good mood. Okay, so you find, figure that out, talk about something that they like, or
Kelsey (19:31)
Mm-hmm.
Jt (19:45)
I mean, there's all sorts of dumb stuff that's going on in the world that you can make light of. it's like, and usually you can find out, you pick two or three things. If the first thing doesn't work, okay, pick out something else, a current event and make fun of it or whatever. And if you get a laugh or a giggle, like, okay, this is the lane, maybe I need to operate in momentarily till I get them comfortable.
Kelsey (20:11)
Yeah, I think you articulated that really well. Another thing you mentioned was what happened last year. So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about that experience. And I think you tied it to, have a high BS meter. So connect those two for me, if you would.
Jt (20:30)
So last year, I had a near-death experience, had a major operation and it knocked me out for a while. funny as we talk about communication, I was not able to communicate for like three months. I was not able to talk, which was not a nightmare. I love talking way too much actually. And you'll find this out as we talk today. So yeah, I had to write on a whiteboard and it was awful. And so...
I got out of that and I realized ⁓ I'm playing with house money. I'm living with borrow time. It's like, don't, my BS meter's high. like, don't have time for that. Like, this is a second chance and I don't want to waste it with BS or drama and vice versa. Like, if people had since that for me, like, I'm like, please call me out. Like, please tell me. Like, I don't want, I hate being uncomfortable and I hate
if I make people uncomfortable, I hate that feeling. Like I lose sleep at night thinking about like what people think of like an event I hosted. Like did I do everything? It's like, I don't know why I care about all those dumb things, but I do. And I don't like people feeling uncomfortable. So yeah, my BS meter, I just, I will walk away. don't.
Yeah, I just don't come at me with even pretend, like just hit me straight and I'll hit you straight. And let's just move on from it.
Kelsey (22:01)
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Melissa, I'm going to ask you a question based off of what JT said. And JT, you mentioned, I will stay awake at night thinking about this event and what people think. Do you, Melissa, think that's a stress move to one because I definitely resonate with that? Or do you also do that as a seven?
Melissa Corkum (22:23)
I do that as a seven, I do wonder if it's related to that like stress move to one or like ⁓ responsive doer move is what Joey and Billy would call it. And it's interesting, right? As a like a mostly independent person. But I think also I don't like other people to feel uncomfortable around me because that makes me feel uncomfortable. like it sounds very
generous and like people pleasing but if I'm really honest like if someone's feeling uncomfortable over here and it's kind of not affecting me I might be blind to it and not really care that much but like if they're uncomfortable like either in something I created or like right in front of me and then that's like I might have to experience feelings or experience them feeling something that doesn't feel comfortable to me then that's when I don't like other people to feel uncomfortable so it is very self
focused for
Jt (23:22)
I have a question for Melissa. you not like, does it make you feel awful when you disappoint people?
Melissa Corkum (23:30)
kind of, but like, like you, JT, I've had two seasons of life that were like pretty crisis level, pretty intense. And I feel like whether it's age or those two experiences, like I also have really low tolerance for like inauthenticity drama, like people who aren't going to just kind of.
be real with what's going on. And so if I disappoint someone because of like the way I'm showing up in the world that's authentically me, I kind of don't care about that anymore. If I'm trying to show love to someone I care about or I in that ⁓ kind of self-focused move, kind of like bowl over someone by accident or like disappoint them in some way in that way because I didn't show up.
because I wasn't paying attention, then that is hard for me, yeah.
Kelsey (24:29)
good question. Thanks, JT. Okay, Melissa, I'm going come back to you with that question on communication style, upbeat, positive, energetic, and sometimes scattered. Would you add anything, change anything?
Melissa Corkum (24:43)
⁓ For me, a little sarcastic. ⁓ And I think that's like trying to make light of, you know, add humor to things, don't let them get too heavy. ⁓ Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's completely inappropriate. I think the other thing is content wise, like in terms of what's coming out of my mouth, I tend to say the things out loud that everyone is thinking but doesn't want to say out loud because to me, information or like those
Thoughts, like thoughts aren't vulnerable to me, generally speaking. Like showing emotion when I wasn't planning on showing an emotion, especially a like harder emotion, like crying or something like that, is a lot harder, but information isn't. So like saying the slightly sarcastic thing or saying the kind of like outrageous thing that you're like, you know everyone is thinking, but no one thinks it's appropriate to say out loud. I'm kind of famous in the work that I do for saying.
like the most ridiculous things from the stage when I speak, because I know everyone in the audience is thinking it. But it's kind of also the way that it's like built trust with people because there's like a level of, yeah, like she knows what we're going through because she's willing to say like this ridiculous thing.
Kelsey (26:02)
So that would say that is kind of a strength in communicating your ability to relate to other people, say the thing that needs to be said. And I think sevens can say it in a way that can be very well received as opposed to maybe ones who are a little more blunt or direct or harsh. think sevens can bring some levity to that. So I want to keep going with you, Melissa, what other than saying the thing that needs to be said and relating to people well in that regard.
What else would you say you do well when it comes to communicating? Maybe through Marco Polo's or other work settings.
Melissa Corkum (26:37)
I do think, and this might be a learned skill, like learned how to hold space for hard things without, I think my intuition is to fix. Like, so think a lot of my language is a lot of times fixing, like how can we make this so that we're not all miserable, right? Like, how can we fix it so we're back to having fun? And I also think, this isn't a strength, this is like the opposite of your question, but I think.
Sometimes because we're uncomfortable with hard feelings, I've also noticed that because information isn't involved and because I am removed from the feeling of it a lot, like I've desensitized myself or suppressed the feeling that a lot of times I can deliver things unemotionally because I've detached emotionally from them. And it comes like that directness actually comes across as incredibly insensitive.
to the person receiving it if they're not like me, right? So if like I'm saying it to a two or something like, you know, I might say something like a little bit like that they're not expecting and I just deliver it with this kind of like directness like this is even if it's about me, right? Like.
A lot of things happened in the last year. I went through a business divorce, a personal divorce. I launched four kids, a mom, I sold a house, all these things. Sometimes I'll just word vomit and it's traumatic for the person on the other side to hear it all because I'm also, and that's the way the year, and I'm kind of like, eh, and that's the way it is. And then there's this long, awkward pause and people are like, I don't know what to do with that. Because there's not the appropriate sense of emotion that they would expect.
So I think also we are void of some of that emotion sometimes, or I am. I don't know JT if you relate to that.
Jt (28:30)
What's that? Devoid of emotion?
Melissa Corkum (28:33)
Kind of, yeah, like devoid of like saying hard things that might, yeah.
Jt (28:36)
Oh yeah. That
part, as much as I don't, yeah, I don't, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, me and drama do our oil and water. So if it was going to be, I guess this is a hard part too, because sometimes things need to be said which credit to you you're able to do it or you have cracked that code. If there's certain people
a lot of friction to my life.
And so if I am around them and that's even the hint, like I am not going to engage. just retreat because once again, I don't have time. I don't want to rehash 20 years ago or this or that. My sister is a tough nut with me sometimes because she doesn't stay on like, for me, an argument is or a disagreement. Let's talk about the thing.
And then it's the thing and then we're done with talking about the thing and move on. It's not 15 things and I can't do that's where I will not be scattered like pick it out and be done. But yes, most I will otherwise avoid any of this. That nope, don't want to do it. I'm trying to be happy all the time and I'm finding that I do not respond well to stress. Even with my business, like I do not
I am not one of those like, ⁓ red wire or blue wire, like, no. Going to heaven, no one asked me to cut the wire, not doing it. We're all gonna die. So I am not gonna be the hero in something like that. Like, I will get everyone happy that we're gonna die or we're gonna live, but don't ask me to cut the wire. And that is all my life now. I'm finding that like, that is hard.
like stress and me do not do well. I have to, yeah, maybe the older you get, you get better discernment of where that stresses are and you just try to minimize them as best you can.
Kelsey (30:43)
Yeah, let's go with that. JT, what has worked in the past for you to handle stress well? And then Melissa, I'm gonna ask you the same question next.
Jt (30:51)
Well, ⁓ beyond avoiding it, ⁓ so like said, just, my stress relief, so my pressure release valve is doing fun things, talking with people, hanging out. So I try to create, I, once again, maybe I, that's why I have so much stress on, because I want to create the atmosphere, because I just don't trust people to make a fun atmosphere. So, but I just try to find, know, I,
de-stress by hanging out and goofing off with people. Laughing like that to me, like laughing and being sarcastic in a fun, know, not a mean way or whatever, that is a huge stress relief for me. So if people are willing to join in on something like that, like I'm, that's who I search out. said, not, we all have drama. I'm sure I'm dramatic for people too, like geez dude. But I try not to be in a
So yeah, I don't know. What was the question? See, it feels like a Friday and a Monday at the same time here.
Kelsey (32:00)
love it. No, you answered it. You answered it well. How do you relieve stress? And for you, is experiences, hanging out with people, laughing with them. And so yeah, you did perfect. Melissa, what about you? What works well ⁓ as far as relieving tension or managing stress?
Melissa Corkum (32:17)
Yeah, well, I have certainly ⁓ experienced enough escapism, JT, for sure. And I also want to say, like, I do what I do for work because people pay me. And it's a very much like an intentional practice. And in my personal life, I don't do that. Like, I don't look to do that well. Like, I will put up boundaries so hard for people who feel dramatic in my life. And ⁓ so, So I'm...
I do that in a very narrow band in life and I have to think really hard about it to do it well. ⁓ Stress relief, things that move my body. So like I have realized the walking practice that I started in COVID ⁓ like literally probably saved my life last year and like sometimes I would just.
like not know what to do with myself. And I'd like, I guess I'm going on another walk because I don't know what else to do. ⁓ I do a lot of social dancing. that has that like social component, JT. I'm an extrovert's extrovert. Like just.
Jt (33:21)
Social dancing is, yes.
You nailed that one.
Melissa Corkum (33:26)
Yeah, so give me some good two-step, some blues, swing, Balboa, salsa, Bachata, like I'll take it all. I'm not overstimulated in any of those environments. I could do it all night long. Like even if I'm dead on my feet, if I can get myself to a dance event, like I will, once I'm moving, I could do it forever. ⁓ Yeah, so people and moving, I've gotten into... ⁓
both indoor and outdoor rock climbing in the last couple years and like all of that being in nature feels really good.
Kelsey (34:01)
No, go ahead, JT. Take it away.
Jt (34:01)
I agree with the physical
thing. The older I've gotten now, before the accident, that's what I loved, exercising and doing stuff. was instant feedback. For me, it was Spartan races. So getting feedback and being out there, that was enjoyable to me. Things have to have a purpose sometimes. don't know if that's... If I'm gonna train for something, there has to be a reason.
Like if I'm going for a walk, like
what is the return on this investment? For you, it sounds like you just get to stress relief, which to me, that's partly it, but there needs to be like some sort of positive feedback beyond the stress relief.
Melissa Corkum (34:45)
Remember JT, I'm coaching while I'm walking.
Jt (34:47)
Okay,
well there you go, okay. There you go. So you are doing two things at once.
Kelsey (34:54)
Okay, so stress relief sounds like people, movement, and laughter for the seven. That's my takeaway from that. It's really good. ⁓ Anything else that y'all would add as far as what you do well when it comes to communication? JT, anything else come to mind?
Jt (35:13)
Um, I'm willing to just talk. I mean, I'm sure. mean, if you were asked my wife, like, we don't let it simmer. Like I am not a simmer person. Like once again, and that's why I was talking about disappointment. Like I don't want to even know that I like, and my wife will tell you this, like in Kelsey from leaving from small group, like there's many times where I've gotten home and I'm like, did I? What?
Did I offend someone by it? Because I said this and I will like won't sleep and Carol will usually talk me off the ledge because I just can't stand, know, I don't, what was the question again? Holy cow, I am like spacing out here.
Kelsey (35:56)
The question is, what else do you do well when it comes to communication? And you were saying? Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Jt (35:59)
I get it out of the way. Talk about it and be done with it. And just be done with it. I don't
want to talk like 20 minutes about it. Like, let's just, like I said, what is the problem? Let's talk about it. Okay.
I know people that love the fight. They love the fight. And I'm like, I don't love the fight. So you can go fight with someone else. Tell me what the problem is you have with me about this situation.
or this whatever, we're solving it or we might not solve it, but it's at least being talked about and then I am not going to talk about it again. Like, I thought it was settled. That's usually how I want to figure things out.
Kelsey (36:40)
Yeah. Most of that is seven thing because it sounds like could be an eight wing.
Melissa Corkum (36:45)
I do have a big eight wing. I will say though, I feel like I'm a fast processor in a lot of ways, but when it comes to interpersonal conflict, I think because it puts me in an emotional space that feels stressful, I am a much slower processor. So in theory, JT, I like what you're saying. I don't want to be in conflict any longer than I have to be. And I often find...
that it takes me more than one conversation to get through it because later, three, four, 12 hours later, I'm like, I like find my footing and especially if it's a conflict that like blindsided me and I have so many more thoughts about it after the fact. And sometimes it's like things that I want to like go back and revisit. ⁓ But when it's not interpersonal conflict, I could talk like, I think,
Sevens are very curious. think we're great question askers. ⁓ I think if you like a long story, we're great storytellers, but it's gonna like to the scattered part, like it's where you're gonna get a lot of detail and it's gonna take like 27 different tangents, but we'll have fun along the way, but we don't tell short stories, but they are fun, I think.
Kelsey (38:07)
They are fun. I can attest to that for sure.
Jt (38:08)
I will concede
what Melissa said. So, yes, let me rephrase, probably two conversations. One, let the dust settle, let's figure it out. So, we know if we're gonna have a conversation about it, what the parameters are, like, here's what we're discussing, which I'm fine to discuss later on after people need time to process. I mean, I am also a proponent of don't go to bed angry, which that's...
your point, Melissa, like, my wife and I have had disagreements throughout our marriage, but we will be like, we will talk about this in the morning about this. And it's not just one storm's off one. Like, I can't, both of us, thankfully, we've been blessed with that, but neither one of us feel settled with that type of arrangement. Like, at least we're gonna be like, we have to talk about this in four hours. But we both agreed that...
this is something that needs to be talked about. But yes, yeah, to your point, yeah, I can't, I'm not just like, forget it, like Dory or whatever. I mean, I kind of like to be like that, but it's like, okay, two conversations, then let's move on.
Kelsey (39:28)
That's good. Melissa, when it comes to communication at work, where do feel like you can improve if anywhere at all?
Melissa Corkum (39:37)
⁓ I think probably giving people more like a lot of times at work I am processing faster than other people. I think I, a couple of things I intentionally have to do the like human connection part because I can get an email. If someone asks me a question in an email, I'm moving so fast. It's easy for me to just answer the question.
and it's like direct and hit send and there's no like, yeah, thanks for your email, like whatever kind of, and so thanks to the Enneagram, right? Like if I know the other person well enough, I know whether or not that's the kind of relationship we can have or whether there needs to be a little bit more fluff. ⁓
But I think also sometimes I, yeah, I'm like moving so fast that just slowing down and just making sure that I'm only having to communicate at once. like, I've got all the details and all of those things.
Kelsey (40:44)
Yeah,
for sure, for sure.
Let me think how I want to ask this question.
When you are listening to other people and waiting for a response, do you find that you have already picked out the response like a third of the way through what they're communicating or do you find that you maybe zone out and maybe disconnect from what you're supposed to respond? Do you see that show up at all?
Melissa Corkum (41:12)
I, yes, and some of it is I'm a visual processor and so long auditory questions are like processing, especially if I'm not interested in it. gosh, that sounds so terrible. Like this conversation has been super interesting and I'm following, I'm tracking it all. But if someone's giving me a long windy response to something that I think could have been direct, yeah, I want.
Jt (41:25)
Nope, you're right.
Melissa Corkum (41:39)
I want to listen to the world on like two times speed if at all possible.
Kelsey (41:43)
Amazing,
amazing. Unfortunately, we can't do that with people. You can do that in Marco Polo, but not in real life with people. So.
Melissa Corkum (41:51)
I yeah.
I do it in every space I possibly can, which there are some people in my life who find that like a huge character flaw.
Kelsey (42:02)
I think it's great. I love that. JT, what about you? Where do feel like you could improve when it comes to communicating at work?
Jt (42:11)
Well, since I don't really, ⁓ I mean with customers, I mean, just commute. I don't think I, once again, as a seven, I feel like I build in a lot of leeway with people because I do spend time trying to get to know them. So I don't find myself knock on wood in too many uncomfortable situations, which is maybe why I'm trying to cultivate that with my name and all that. Like, so.
I don't know. I was gonna say something else about you were talking. So, if someone's not like, get to the point. If they're not to the point, like I have moved on. But the reverse is because I'm so scatterbrained and scatter conversation, it's like, I feel like and it's maybe a, like I expect, hey, no, no, you better listen. I got a lot to say here. So, let's stay focused here.
And it didn't really dawn on me till Melissa said it. It's like, I expect a lot from people when I'm talking with them, but I spaced out really quick and like move on. Or yeah, I formulate, okay, if they start talking, okay, know. The older you get, kind of, all the conversations are the same. you know, if someone's pissed, you get the idea. If someone's happy, someone's sad, you can kind of like, and you know them.
you can kind of extrapolate what the point what they're going to get to. So you're already like, I am already like, okay, they're they're mad. Okay. What is my I'm not listening to them. I'm figuring out what my response is going to be. ⁓ they're sad. As a seven, how can I solve their problem? So I'm already trying to figure out how I can help them. And they don't need help or what you know, I'm so very rarely do I I mean, hear the full story.
I'm already like trying to process and for one to be done with it. Like I just, let's move on to something else please.
Because and I don't know if Melissa like when I'm in a group of people, it's the worst when people are talking and I'm listening to them and I can hear a conversation that I have input into and would like to hear. So I am like listening to like at a networking event I'm like, which is pure awfulness for me.
I'm hearing all these conversations I want to be a part of and I can't, and then they've moved on and I don't know, I just went on a tangent there.
Kelsey (44:47)
Is that the FOMO of the seven? I'm going to be involved in all of these different things.
Jt (44:50)
Yeah, because
I hear it's like someone's talking, for example, like about bourbon, that's something or a vent, like networking. kind of fancy myself a person that does that. like, hey, I know what works. And then they're done talking about it. I'm like, dang it. You didn't hear what I had to say. I could have offered something great for you. But this person was droning on and wouldn't get to the point. And I'm trying to be respectful of their time. you know, it
pay attention and it's
I don't know.
Kelsey (45:23)
Melissa, saw you nodding your head at the FOMO comment with the different things going on. Anything else you would add onto that?
Melissa Corkum (45:31)
No, all of that scenario, JT, like first is like giving me anxiety because I want to like, I feel that like want to be in like seven conversations at once. And my younger self, and I would say probably still it's like something, but I'm more self aware is I'm an interrupter and I don't like it about myself. But like someone saying something like you were talking about bourbon JT, like if someone's saying something and I have something to say,
It's like right there and I'm like, if I don't say it, might lose it and it's going to be good. sometimes it just comes out.
Jt (46:03)
Yes, you're gonna, yeah.
Kelsey (46:06)
OK, that goes really well, I think, with the next question I want to ask you guys. And to me, what I'm hearing, Melissa, is that, hey, sometimes I interrupt, but it's coming from a place of I want to share my idea, and it's a good idea. And so please have patience with me when I interrupt at times. so my question is, how would you like other people, or what would you like other people to know about your communication style?
How can we give you guys grace and meet you halfway when it comes to your specific communication style? Melissa.
Melissa Corkum (46:42)
think if all possible, the fast pace ⁓ is better for us. ⁓ Yeah, be patient with potential interruptions or give us space to contribute. But then as I was also saying earlier, I think be kind to us. I'll speak for myself. When it comes to communicating hard things where someone might have an emotional reaction to what's coming out of our mouth.
I become the most socially awkward person. I'm generally charming and funny and all the things. when I had to tell the people close to me about my divorce last year, when I think back, they were some of the worst, most awful conversations. I didn't know how to do it well, and so I would just sit down with someone and the first words out of my mouth would be like.
we're getting into four. You know, like it would just like, was no lead. I didn't know like what to do with it. I didn't want, I didn't want to mislead anyone. It wasn't like, there wasn't like small talk to make it any softer. I didn't know how to like do a smooth transition. And so it was just like word vomit. Like this is what's going on in my life. And then, you know, and it was also like very, it felt, I'm sure to them, it felt very cold. Like, cause I would just say it and that was it.
And I was like, I'm not going to have an emotion about this in front of you. So.
Kelsey (48:09)
So just be patient with that as well. If there's a coldness, just know that sevens have detached from that emotion and ⁓ they're,
you say?
Melissa Corkum (48:18)
and we're
like, and we might be struggling, like we're not okay. I think that's like sometimes like, because there's not emotion with hard things, there's like this assumption that we're resilient and fine. And a lot of times that's true. But I think what we show in public is not always the representation of what is going on behind closed doors.
Kelsey (48:40)
That's what I
beautifully said. Thank you for that.
Jt (48:42)
I would agree with that.
Kelsey (48:44)
Yeah, what else would you say JT as far as how can the rest of us give you grace when it comes to your communication style?
Jt (48:51)
I kind of it and and Melissa said it once again I get to the beat to the point with me and then I'm going to ramble on and wander in the conversation to because something else was said or if we're anywhere it's like it I definitely I hate using it because it's such an overuse crochet but the squirrel thing it's is a real thing like
I'm like a dog seeing a squirrel, like, okay, something new. Or Dory, like, I look away, what were we talking about? let's talk about this instead, you know.
I'm there, you just gotta be ⁓ up to the point
or match me with goofing off. Like, if you're engaging me in my goofy side, ⁓ then we're in, it's a whole different thing.
And I, this is a generational thing and I still get frustrated even with, with you and Ben because you're younger than me. So you haven't seen like movies that I have, like my generation, I don't want to say I'm not like ⁓ I'm 50 years older than you, but my like era of people, like we communicate in movie quotes and know all this stuff. Like you're like, when I, like when I talk to people like of your age, they're like, what? And so I,
And so that's another way, like communicating. Like I am going to, if there's a way to have fun with it and communicate and that's how I communicate in like fragments. Like, and see how if you're going to match me, then we can go all day long. Like throw something in there, you know, be self-deprecating. Like that will engage me and keep me in the conversation. If it is just like my life sucks.
business move hard today, like, okay, yeah, we all have been there. And once again, this isn't lost to me that I can do these same things to people. So I think people give, and maybe Melissa can attest to this, I feel like maybe it's because people think, ⁓ he's a nice guy or whatever, like, forget it, we're not gonna talk about it. And I set the stage that it's gonna be a fun, goofy, so people just kinda, I...
People have told me they're like, JT, you get a lot of leeway. And I don't want to say charm, because I'm not charming. people that get yelled at, I don't get yelled at. I have been able, and my sister will attest to this, because she is not a seven. And my parents and I got along great, because I figured out where the pressure points were. Why do I want to engage those? No. And my sister likes to engage them.
Melissa Corkum (51:28)
You
Jt (51:42)
And she wondered why life was so much harder. like, because you were ain't, I don't, anyway. Once again, let me go on a tangent like I just did. But feel free to be like, and I'm not offended if people honestly, hey, weren't we talking about something else? yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like you can round me back into the conversation easy. I'm not gonna be offended because I know I can ramble like crazy.
Kelsey (51:53)
I love it.
Jt (52:10)
Because I can't keep one coherent thought at one time. I just can't do it. There's not one coherent thought for more than 10 seconds. Usually I'm thinking about something else.
Kelsey (52:11)
You got your score.
Okay, I'm gonna give you homework, JT, like in true and grand one fashion. I'm gonna give a seven homework. How fun is that? It will be good homework. I want you to make a list of 10 movies that Ben and I need to watch so we can communicate with you. Not.
Jt (52:25)
Homework? Okay.
⁓ yeah. Seriously, I'm not kidding.
I'll come home and I'll be a care. They didn't even understand that. I'm like, that is in like the lexicon like that. How do they not know that?
And so and that's not just you guys, that's just younger people. And when I get around people my age and we like, like now, I don't even text people, I just text people memes. I don't even write, I just respond.
Kelsey (52:48)
Melissa, do you?
Jt (53:01)
Like if I want to say, how are you today? I'll look for a meme that says, how are you doing? And that's how I like, I don't engage in actual conversation. Like how can I? Yeah. And that's, but before memes were a thing that to me, movie quotes were that is movie quotes just moved on to a meme and that's it. And that's how I've communicated with all my friends and people I know of my age, maybe a few years younger. So anyway,
I'm sorry, that was way off.
Kelsey (53:34)
You're good. You're good. Melissa, do you also communicate in memes and movie quotes?
Melissa Corkum (53:40)
Memes for sure. think self-deprecating is another, like Kelsey going back to like descriptions of seven language. I would pull that out. I think I resonate with that a lot. ⁓ Memes and gifts and all the things I think are hysterical. Like I love all of that. ⁓ I quote Princess Bride to people all the time and sometimes it just goes right over their head.
Jt (54:01)
See, there we go.
Melissa Corkum (54:04)
yes, all of that
sense to
Jt (54:08)
Okay, I have to homework for you. So honestly, study of who creates memes. I bet if you went and did it, most people that create those are sevens.
Kelsey (54:09)
JT will read. Okay.
Jt (54:19)
Like that will actually like create a meme and do that stuff. Because they don't want to communicate. They want to communicate what makes them feel comfortable. And so I feel like most for I know a great, a good friend of mine, well, you know him too, Daniel.
Melissa Corkum (54:20)
⁓ yeah.
Jt (54:36)
We talk to each other and he is younger than he's probably five, six years. That is how we communicate. And I know this with lots of other sevens, like that's how we communicate. Like, because it's set, because we don't want to get mired in something too serious so we can break the ice with a meme. Like someone's like, man, I've been having a horrible day. And then you post whatever, you know, something funny.
Usually, they're like, okay, this person is going to be a refuge for me. They might not be like want to get way down in the weeds with me, but they're also not going to let me just, you know, pout and all this kind of stuff.
Melissa Corkum (55:21)
Yeah. inside jokes. That's what I was thinking. I think ⁓ I communicate a lot in inside jokes with my close people.
Kelsey (55:27)
Yes.
Jt (55:28)
Nice.
Kelsey (55:29)
That's wonderful. Okay. I think communicating what you're saying, JT, ⁓ with memes and making them fun and self-deprecation and Melissa, what you're saying with inside jokes, that's the levity that seven spring, the rest of us, which is a gift. And one of the many things I love about sevens. So we're going to end on this question at JT. What do you love most or best about being a type seven?
Jt (55:57)
What do I love most or best?
Kelsey (55:59)
Mm-hmm.
Jt (56:01)
is that although I don't accomplish a lot of my dreams, I'm still able to dream. Like don't let it stop me from like, okay, even though I don't like execute very many of them, yeah, it doesn't stop me. Like even if people are like a bad, like pessimistic, like that's a dumb idea. Like, yeah, it probably is, but okay, I'll just move on to the next one. Like I think that's what I like about being a seven is I don't get too down
for too long.
Kelsey (56:32)
Yeah. ⁓ that's good. Very well said, JT. Thank you. Melissa, how about you? What do you like most or best about being a seven?
Melissa Corkum (56:42)
I mean, clearly we're having the most fun. ⁓
Yeah, I think the superpower is the kryptonite. I think we can move forward even in hard things. We don't get dragged down. My oldest son got married 48 hours after my dad died. My dad died in our house and our son got married in our backyard and we made all that happen. And it like never occurred to me once to cancel. I mean, it occurred to us that we might need to cancel, but like.
The balls were in motion, right? We weren't going to do it. And the superpower is we can set aside that emotion and just do it. And we can find the silver lining in all the reasons why that particular scenario for our family actually worked really well. And that sounds ridiculous, right? ⁓ And sometimes it comes across as really insensitive and sometimes it's inappropriate if we use that superpower at the wrong time. But the world keeps moving.
sometimes and sometimes we just need to be able to do that. And so I think sevens do that and and we do it while still having fun, which sounds crazy and weird and awful maybe, but I enjoy that I can do that.
Kelsey (58:04)
Yeah, that doesn't sound crazy or weird at all. ⁓ Y'all bring me with you. I need the fun. I forget to have it. So y'all are a gift truly to me. Not just type ones, but Kelsey and probably the rest of us as well. So, okay, last question, I promise. ⁓ JT, what are you doing for-
Jt (58:24)
What am I doing for fun?
Kelsey (58:26)
Yeah, what's something you're doing right now that's fun?
Jt (58:29)
We're actually having margaritas in the garage to celebrate the end of the school year. Once again, my idea and Kara's like, what? Which is why part of me is just like, somewhat, it'll enjoy her response. Like she's still a surprise that I do. Like what, of course I'm trying to figure out a way to hang out with people again. So, which once again, you guys are invited if you're ready. Anyone can come to the garage, we're making marks.
Kelsey (58:34)
Let's go!
Melissa, I know you're in Baltimore, but if you want to fly to Texas for some margaritas, come on.
Melissa Corkum (58:59)
I was gonna
say, could be there soon. I could be there soon. Just hold me a seat.
Jt (59:03)
We'll keep it cold.
Kelsey (59:05)
Yes. ⁓ Melissa, what about you? What are you doing right now that's fun, something you're enjoying?
Melissa Corkum (59:11)
in a season of lots of travel, which I love, but coming up this weekend is ⁓ outside of DC. We're doing Thursday all the way through Monday a blues dance festival. There will be live music every single night and blues dancers from all over the country. And so that's what I'll be doing for the next five days.
Kelsey (59:32)
Yep, that sounds fun. I love it. Okay. I think that's a really great place to end. Thank you guys. JT, Melissa, y'all were phenomenal. Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom. I loved having you guys.
Jt (59:44)
with
most of-
Melissa Corkum (59:49)
Thanks Kelsey, it was really fun.
Jt (59:50)
Thank you. That was a good time.
Nice to
Kelsey (59:51)
Yeah.
Jt (59:52)
meet you, Melissa.
Thank you, Kelsey.
Melissa Corkum (59:53)
You too, JT.