Enneagram Type 6 Communication Style at Work

Season #4 May 20, 2026

In this episode of The Working Enneagram, we’re talking all about the communication style of the Enneagram Type 6.

Kelsey is joined by Emma and Marshall, two Type 6s who bring such thoughtful, honest, and hilarious insight into what it’s like to communicate through a lens of preparedness, loyalty, curiosity, and the occasional “backup plan for the backup plan.”

We talk about why Sixes often crave context, how they process uncertainty, what “the committee” means, why the why matters so much, and how Type 6s create safe spaces for the people around them.

In this conversation, you’ll also learn:

Why Type 6s often give so much context
For Sixes, context isn’t usually “extra.” It often feels necessary for clarity, trust, and making sure nothing important gets missed

Why Sixes ask so many questions
Questions aren’t always pushback. Sometimes they’re a Six’s way of seeking security, understanding, and a little more solid ground.

What “ping-ponging” sounds like in real life
Emma explains the mental back-and-forth that can happen when a Six is trying to find certainty in a situation that may not offer it.

Why the “why” matters so much
Sixes don’t just want to know what’s happening. They want to understand why it’s happening, how decisions were made, and what it means moving forward.

How Type 6s can grow in communication
We talk about the courage it takes to say, “I don’t know,” to trust yourself, and to communicate without needing every possible contingency plan in place first.

If you are a Type 6, work with a Type 6, love a Type 6, or have ever overthought a text message for longer than you’d like to admit, this conversation is for you.

Learn more about the Enneagram at work: https://theworkingenneagram.com

Subscribe for more conversations about personality, communication, leadership, and workplace relationships through the lens of the Enneagram.

Episode Transcript

Kelsey (00:00)
Welcome

the Working Enneagram channel where we talk about the Enneagram in the context of work. I am your host, Kelsey Taylor. And today we are talking all things communication style for the Enneagram Type 6. So I have brought with me Emma and Marshall. Emma, Marshall, thank you guys for joining. Welcome to the show.

Marshal (00:20)
Thank you.

Emma (00:21)
Thank you for having us.

Kelsey (00:22)
Yeah, I'm excited. Today's conversation is going to be a lot of fun. And before we jump in, I figured it might be helpful to explain a little bit about what the Type 6 is for those who may not be as familiar. So I would say 6s are loyal, responsible, very thoughtful people who are typically motivated by a desire to have security, to have support and reassurance.

I think they bring preparedness and commitment and a strong sense of problem solving to the workplace and may sometimes struggle with overthinking from time to time. At their best though, I sixes are extremely courageous. They're grounded and very responsible. Emma, would you add or change anything?

Emma (01:10)
I get so overwhelmed with all the positive things. I'm like, whoa, have you thought this through? ⁓ You need to give all those disclaimers you're missing. But no, that was really sweet. I think I get bogged down a little bit in the things that I don't like about being a six, but I really do appreciate the positive half ⁓ a little bit more.

Kelsey (01:38)
I

it. I relate to you. ⁓ I think that maybe part of our, the way that we ones and sixes view the world, a little maybe on the pessimistic side from time to time, we're like, well, wait a second. There's a whole other half here that, well, we kind of suck at. You're not alone in that, but I do love the sixes and appreciate that you appreciate the positive side of that. So thank you. Marsha, would you change or add anything?

Marshal (02:07)
No, I think he hit the nail on the head with overthinking. But I think we find ways to use that to our benefit. So long as we can keep the reins on it, we can turn it into a positive. But it's a lot of intentionality to do that.

Kelsey (02:25)
Yeah, well said. It's very good. Okay, let's jump right in. Emma, tell me a little bit about what you do for work and what you're enjoying right now.

Emma (02:35)
find it so interesting that a one is asking this question. like, do you really want to talk about work? ⁓ I am a engineer. ⁓ I guess right now what I'm really enjoying with work is the, it's like a double, it's a double edged sword. I've never really dealt with people so much. Like normally it's a technical implementation.

Kelsey (02:41)
Thank you.

Emma (03:02)
And I do process optimization of petrochemical oil and gas facilities. And when you bring people in, they're always the wild card. And so it's like, I love hearing the whys or trying to overanalyze what's happening. ⁓ But I do miss more of the technical aspects of my job. But that's kind of where I am right now.

Kelsey (03:27)
Why do you think you miss the technical aspects out of curiosity?

Emma (03:33)
There's probably a should lined in there somewhere about ⁓ if you kind of lose the technical part, like if you don't use it, you'll lose it kind of thing. ⁓ It's like a ⁓ skill that I don't want to lose. Like I'll always have the people part or like nobody praises really the people part. It's more like what do you know? What are your abilities? And I think I downplay the other stuff, but yeah.

There's a should least in there.

Kelsey (04:05)
Yeah, yeah. Okay, Marshall, what about you? What do you do for work and what are you enjoying right now?

Marshal (04:12)
⁓ I am a psychiatrist and I work at a FQHC, so it's a federally qualified health center. ⁓ And I see kids and adults. And I work in a developmental disabilities health center. So right now we're seeing adults with disabilities and I do the psychiatry piece of that. ⁓ And then I'm also leading a team of other psychiatry providers ⁓ to go into primary care clinics and support the PCPs or primary care providers in doing psychiatry.

Because there's a huge mental health provider shortage in the country, we can't possibly out-hire the problem, so we're trying to be innovative to find ways to meet the Yeah.

Kelsey (04:53)
Yeah.

What is something that's really enjoyable right now, if anything?

Marshal (05:00)
Something that is both stressful and enjoyable is that ⁓ I just took over as medical director for the DDHC, the Developmental Disability Health Center. ⁓

Kelsey (05:09)
Congratulations.

Marshal (05:11)
which is really fun. ⁓ And a new challenge is that we are proposing adding on a couple of extra services to our clinic, which are really needed. ⁓ But it's a lot of work to make that proposal and to support it and to get a yes for that. ⁓ And I feel like as a six, I'm really well suited because when they come at me with questions of, have you thought about this or this or this? like, yeah, and I thought about this and this too. ⁓ So that's really fun. ⁓

And at the same time, still seeing patients within there and working with my teams within that too.

Kelsey (05:46)
Yeah, that's awesome. That's good. Okay. Speaking of being ⁓ prepared for questions as a six, how do you know that you are a type six, Marshall?

Marshal (05:59)
I didn't initially. ⁓ I thought I was a one for a long time. ⁓ and it was a, my wife's sister-in-law who we were having a discussion as a group and I kept talking about all of these, ⁓ backup plans for my backup plans and all of the contingency plans. and she brought up the idea of like, maybe you're a six and it connected.

I think there's a lot of aspects of other types that I still connect with a lot, but I couldn't get away from the contingency plans for contingency plans and the super close context that I always, those are the things like I just can't, regardless of what else is coming in, I can't get away from those two.

Kelsey (06:47)
Okay, that's good. Tell me about superfluous context for somebody who's not familiar with that term. How would you describe that?

Marshal (06:55)
⁓

probably just listen to most of my answers today and you'll hear them. It's that I give way more context and way more to an answer or response than what I actually need to. ⁓ Because to me, every bit of context is important. ⁓ I can't triage out what's not important ⁓ unless there's a lot of intentionality. ⁓ A great example of that is my, in this whole proposal thing that I've been working on for the service line, ⁓

my boss, the chief medical officer, he said, oh yeah, I got your email. I didn't read most of it. I just figured he probably had it all in there, because it just was too much. And so I've learned that when I write up an email like that where I have to have all the background data, whether I have to or not, I feel better with it. I put all of that in a Word doc and attach it, and then I give the too long didn't read upfront in the actual body of the email.

so that extra document is the superfluous context. That maybe someone else wants to hear it in the future, and if they want to hear it, I want them to know that I did it. But if they don't need it, they don't have to read it.

Kelsey (08:07)
Beautifully said. I love that so much. And fits perfectly with our communication topic today. So thank you for that. Very good.

Emma (08:19)
I resonate so much with the, you know, feeling of a constant, like, this quest for finding security and having a hard time with uncertainty and doubt, the ping-ponging, even though I needed help to find my number. Like, once I got there, it definitely, ⁓ yeah, it's kind of like the, it feels like a blanket. Like, it makes sense. It makes me make sense. So.

Kelsey (08:48)
Okay, now I'm gonna ask you to expand upon something. Tell me about the ping ponging. What does that mean?

Emma (08:57)
Ping-ponging is kind of like playing devil's advocate with yourself, like, well, what about this? Or actually, what about this? And it's really just coming down to a quest for certainty where it might not exist. And it could be like an infinite cycle of back and forth and not feeling sure about what you should do. And if I can get to like...

baby steps, like what is the next best step for this moment? It can kind of break that loop. Otherwise it'll just be, um, what about this? What about this? What about this? Maybe this? Yeah. It's not very fun. And then we bring everybody, we bring our committee along with us, you know? What should I do? And then you don't end up listening to what they want to do because you're trying to figure out, well, that didn't feel right. Like,

Kelsey (09:37)
Yes.

Emma (09:53)
Anyway, so the next best thing.

Kelsey (09:58)
Marsha, I see you shaking your head.

Marshal (10:00)
yeah, asking the committee and then saying, but that didn't feel right. That resonates really strongly. ⁓ I'm looking for some data that supports how I feel. And so I might ping pong all around to try to find that data. And once I do, then it affirms like, yeah, it's okay to feel this way, it's right, or ⁓ I'm not wrong to feel this way about this thing.

Emma (10:27)
An analogy that just popped in my head is ⁓ kind of like you're shooting basketballs into a hoop. And there are a couple times where it's like a swoosh and you're like, my God, that felt amazing. Like that was perfect. And you're always looking for the swooshes, but sometimes, you know, you hit the rim and it just like, it hit the backboard and it just didn't look.

pretty, like, that's what it feels like when you're trying to go to the committee and you're just wanting that swoosh every time.

Kelsey (11:00)
Yeah, what a beautiful analogy. I love it. Yes, so good. When y'all are saying committee, is that your internal committee? Is it an external committee? Is it

Marshal (11:03)
Love that.

Emma (11:12)
Uh, committee for me, it depends on the situation. Like if I need to buy new tires, I'm calling my boyfriend, I'm calling my dad, I'm calling my uncle. It's so silly. And then your day to day is going to be like my mom and my grandmother and my boyfriend. And you know, lately I think I'm getting it a little bit more intentional about, okay, what am I really going after? But, but yeah, those are, those are the main committees.

Kelsey (11:42)
It's so insightful. Thank you. Marshall, what about you?

Marshal (11:47)
Ditto. ⁓

Emma (11:49)
You

Kelsey (11:50)
You're calling Emma's boyfriend? That's so weird.

Marshal (11:52)
I call him like what tire should I be getting for my car? No, I didn't even think about it that way like in those kinds of realms, but it absolutely is true I've got my my medical people like hey, how sick is my kid actually? Can you help me out with this? I've got my people who help me pick out like what to dress I've got people who help me with like home repair stuff with other whatever it is. I've got yeah, I've got people for that

Emma (11:56)
Yeah.

Marshal (12:20)
they are the committee and I'm not going to just probably not just going to ask one of them. I've got to get a couple of opinions to make sure I have all the bases covered.

Kelsey (12:27)
Okay, that is so helpful because I have been told oftentimes sixes have this internal committee, like a one has their inner critic, the sixes have the inner panel, essentially that is constantly the, what about this, what about this, what about this? Yeah, the ping pong. Okay, and those are two different, you've got your ping ponging and then you've got your people. Those are two different things that are working in tandem. Is that fair to say?

Emma (12:55)
I mean, when I'm ping-ponging, I'm on like really unsteady ground. If I'm asking the committee, I feel a little more sturdied up. It might slip, but like most of the time it's more sturdy. But then just to add to the committee, you you always have Google.

Kelsey (13:18)
Marshall, yours is Chad's GPT, right?

Marshal (13:20)
Yeah, I was gonna say I have a committee of AI too, because I bounce between the different apps. I bounce between the apps. I'm like, this is a yes man. I know I go to this AI if I'm just like needing affirmation and I can like scratch that itch that I've got. But if I want someone like someone, an app that actually tells me ⁓ what other people would actually say, ⁓ and I can cite it, then I go to those ones. ⁓

Emma (13:25)
Too scary. Too scary.

Marshal (13:45)
And I kind of know which one to go to for what, kind of like we do with real life people, what I'm actually looking for. I do also have a bit of an internal committee, but it is based on the people outside of me. And I'm trying to think through what would they think. And well, if I do this, well then how is so-and-so gonna see it? And what will they think if I think this or if I do this? So there's at least some component of... ⁓

external voices that are speaking in, whether it's real or something that I just created in my mind.

Kelsey (14:17)
Yeah, that's so good. So insightful. Thank you guys. I appreciate you going off that bunny trail with me. It's awesome. Okay, let's talk about communication style for this six. So a lot of times six's communication style is described as very thoughtful, curious, sometimes a little self-doubting. Emma, do you agree with that? Would you change something? What would you add?

Emma (14:44)
Yeah, I mean, I think that covers. Can I add a little context?

Marshal (14:49)
Thank

you.

Emma (14:51)
so I feel like when there's, when it's more stressful, you're going to get a more, ⁓ you know, you might get a little bit less curiosity and curiosity is definitely one of my values. And I feel like if I'm not in a place where I have to deliver or like, have to do something, then curiosity is kind of like a space of creativeness.

And it feels more freeing, right? If I can trust myself, I'm a little bit more free and you get the creative, curious, open aspects of me. And then when I'm stressed or overwhelmed with life and the urgency that I feel like, know, the responsiveness dictates a level of urgency inside, then you're going to get the, you know, a little bit less of those qualities.

Kelsey (15:49)
I love hearing that curiosity is a, do you say a core value of yours?

Emma (15:55)
Yeah, I think so.

yeah, step away from judgment a little bit. Yeah.

Kelsey (16:02)
Sure, absolutely.

I could take a page out of your book on that one too. So thank you for that. What are some of your other core values just out of curiosity?

Emma (16:14)
It's interesting, I keep going back to freedom. like, if I can break, like, the, of this personality and defaults that we have are kind of like shackles. And so if I can step out of it, like I get to a place of freedom. And so I don't mean it like in the normal sense of the word, like to me, there's a connotation of what freedom means. And to me, it's more like.

I can trust myself and I can be more authentically me, like that freedom from judgment of others, whether it's projected on me, what I, what the story I'm telling myself, like if I can break out of that, then I can be more free.

Kelsey (16:57)
Yeah, that's so good. Marshall, do you have core values?

Marshal (17:02)
I'm sure I do but I'm never like that intentional. I'm really impressed because I yeah I Core values trying to catch up on sleep right now. I'm trying to think Maybe not core values, but core goals right now are trying to stay more present ⁓ And not thinking all the ten steps ahead on every one of those little rabbit trails I can go off on Yeah, be mindful

Kelsey (17:32)
Okay, I love it.

Marshal (17:34)
Not that intentional at least. Not consciously.

Kelsey (17:39)
But still, they're there. Yeah, being mindful and sleep, sleep matters.

Marshal (17:42)
Yeah. It's better. I value

sleep.

Kelsey (17:48)
Okay, I'm going go back to the same question that Six is being thoughtful, curious, sometimes self-doubting in their communication style. Do you agree? Would you change anything, add anything?

Marshal (18:01)
⁓ Really intentional. I think that speaks to the thoroughness. ⁓ think the intentionality comes with I don't know if this is purely a six thing but

I wonder, am I going to stand by what I say right now? Am I going to stand by that later? Does this stand the test of time? That's kind of one of the things that probably unconsciously runs through my mind quite a bit. Is this going to stand the test of time? And does this stand in multiple different situations? Does what I'm going to say have integrity across the different spheres of my life? ⁓ My communication style, I think, is a... ⁓

self-doubting as evidenced by how much superfluous context I give. ⁓ If I give less superfluous context, I'm a lot more confident. ⁓ And if I give a ton, then you know that I'm like, I don't know how I feel about this. ⁓

I had a professor in college talk about ⁓ how he writes his exams. It was like an upper level biology course. He's like, you guys, I'm going to teach you here, but I'm going to ask you questions down here on the test. And then he made this other comment. Like, so if you come asking me questions here for clarification, I know that you're not reading and paying attention in class. And I have found myself very hesitant to speak unless I know it up here and I'm speaking down here.

because I want to be able to have that margin of being able to answer all of these questions. But if I speak up here, then I don't really know what I would say if people ask more questions. And I don't trust myself that I'm going be able to answer questions as though they're all down below, within what I know. I...

I context, ⁓ what I'm being communicated to. And I prefer being able to make my own judgments or decisions on what.

whatever information you're providing. I think that probably is why I get really triggered when it feels like someone is condescending. Whether it's in ⁓ tone especially, ⁓ if it just feels like they're trying to talk down to me. I really don't like that. I think it's an assumption in my mind that they, ⁓ that it's affirming that my self doubt.

Kelsey (20:30)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, for sure. I love the explanation of speaking here to answer questions that can fill the gap from up here. I think that's very ⁓ interesting to know about maybe a type six, but specifically Marshall. Emma, do you resonate with that at all, speaking here to leave margin for some of the questions?

Emma (20:54)
That's the first

time I've, like, I mean, when you describe your professor, I'm like, what kind of evilness is this? ⁓ Like, trick, trick question. ⁓ Like, that puts me on edge that I have to be prepared. Like, I think behavior-wise, I probably would do the same thing. Like, I've got to cover everything to be prepared. ⁓ Yeah, that was... ⁓

I got a red flag going off on that one.

Marshal (21:25)
Yeah,

didn't sit well. think that whole textbook for that semester, everything was highlighted. ⁓ I don't know if I'm quite knowing it up here, so I better read it all. Yes. Yep.

Emma (21:30)
Yes, yes, yes.

Prioritize everything.

Yeah. Yes.

Kelsey (21:41)
It all matters, yes.

Emma, when it comes to communication, what do you think you do really well?

Emma (21:49)
try to be intentional, thorough, like that's really what I'm shooting for and where the overthinking is coming from. yeah, I mean I think I do those things reasonably well.

Kelsey (22:08)
Marshall, what about you?

Emma (22:08)
You hear the doubt

in my voice.

Kelsey (22:10)
Do I? Do I do these things well? Maybe.

Emma (22:12)
Yeah,

yeah.

Kelsey (22:15)
Marshall, what about you? What do you think you do well?

Marshal (22:18)
I think I am able to read people fairly well on what they're needing for communication. ⁓ And whether it's because of ⁓ past conversations I've had with similar people or the kinds of questions they're asking, ⁓ if I'm talking to a five, I'm gonna talk in a five way. If I'm talking to a... ⁓

a nine or two, whatever other number I'm to try to pick up what they're looking for and try to match that and kind of translate into their speak.

Kelsey (22:54)
Yeah, yeah, I think that's one of the most beautiful things about the Enneagram is that we can learn there are nine different ways of seeing and being in the world and nine different ways that people prefer to communicate or prefer to receive communication and knowing those eight different normals from our normal helps with how to bridge the gap between some what would otherwise be miscommunication and we'll still have it but.

⁓ You spoke to that beautifully, Marshall. I love that.

Marshal (23:25)
Yeah, and

I think six is because we're thinking through all the different outcomes and well, happens if this, what happens if that. I think we're thinking through what other types are thinking as well. At least I am, ⁓ so that I can be ready to respond.

Kelsey (23:44)
Be prepared. I love

Emma, where do you feel like you can improve when it comes to communication?

Emma (23:52)
⁓ well, I noticed when I can access choice and I can be a little bit more like, you know, whether I'm not perfect, like acknowledge that I'm not going to get it right. And like, I'm, I'm a human. If I can access that,

and just be myself or think through, like just take the next step instead of overthink like that. I guess what I'm trying to describe is like this feeling of those two types of coming to the world. And so like what I want to improve is really.

improve for myself rather than necessarily everybody hearing the superfluous context. Like I'd rather come from a instead of sparing you, I'd rather feel better about myself. So it's kind of that trying to harness that feeling of I'm going to intentionally choose instead of just reacting or being an autopilot. ⁓

I mean, that's the perpetual work, so that's kind of what I want to convey rather than saying I'm crummy sometimes or I overthink or I'm too wordy. Yeah. ⁓

Kelsey (25:10)
Just being a little more comfortable in your skin and who you are as Emma. Yeah.

Emma (25:15)
Yes. Yeah. And

even if it doesn't come out perfect, it's, it's me. Like there's, there's gotta be some kind of testament to, to me, you know, when, when I heard Marshall describe, like being, having a tailored approach to each person, a part of me was kind of like sad because like, where is Marshall? Like Marshall likes the superfluous stuff. So, you know, honoring everybody, even yourself.

is kind of what I wish for both of us. Yeah.

Kelsey (25:47)
Mm-hmm, that's

well said. Yeah, that's poetic in its own way. Thank you, Emma. Okay, Marshall, where do you feel like you can improve when it comes to communication?

Marshal (25:58)
I think trusting myself, that's the whole knowing up here, answering down here, trusting that I can speak to this and a lot of this stuff up here.

okay if I don't really answer. ⁓ Or it's okay to say I don't know but this is what I think. I think having a trust of myself.

in those situations would be helpful.

suspect it would benefit situations and others more if I spoke up

And an apparel would be more enjoyable and I'd get, I would get out of my head more. I find even when I'm talking with patients, I feel a lot more comfortable when I'm even able to say, yeah, I don't know.

And that's really, that took a long time. That probably took until I was almost done with training to be able to say that comfortably. ⁓ Because before it was an admission that I'm not enough, that I don't know enough, that other people are better than me, that like, gosh, you're not in good hands, something bad is going to happen. All these, you know, spiraling thoughts. ⁓

And whether it's because I have been doing it for a while and it's that, I forget what the name is, well like the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know and become uncomfortable with that. That actually feels really good to be able to say, I don't know, but based on what I do know, this is what I think we should do and this is why here's some potential outcomes. ⁓ So I could do a better job of

taking that out of the exam room and using it in other areas of my life. ⁓

Kelsey (27:43)
Yeah, I love that. think we all have those moments where we genuinely just don't, we don't know the answer. We don't know the next step. And it's very uncomfortable. I think probably more uncomfortable for sixes than the rest of us, but it is uncomfortable. So hearing you say, I don't know, but here's what I think, or I don't know, but I can go find out and come back to you, I think is just beautiful. That's where I feel like the

Emma, what you're saying is being comfortable in your own skin. And Marshall, you sang, like being comfortable with not knowing is a lot of great growth, I think, for the six. So love hearing

Now want to ask you, Marshall, I'm going start with you on this one, just because you touched on it a little bit earlier. How do you prefer people communicate to you? ⁓

You had mentioned, want all the information. What are some other things that you would like from other people when they communicate to you?

Marshal (28:40)
⁓ I want... I like having an opportunity to ask questions and ⁓ having plain speak. Not being... ⁓ not having to try to read between the lines or assume what they're trying to say or understand what they're...

really saying by not saying it. ⁓ I don't know anyone who really likes it when that would happen. ⁓ But it gets me into my head too much and then I become too calculated and then I'm not in the moment. I'm thinking three comments ahead and where's this gonna land me? ⁓ Instead of being able to say, if you said XYZ, I'm gonna believe that at face value. And I'm not gonna have to... ⁓

play this assuming game and try to interpret things. ⁓ So I like having that ⁓ direct discussion. ⁓ I do like the context ⁓ in a way that allows me to make my own decisions on it, ⁓ but not in a way of like, well, you don't understand. And so I'm gonna teach it to you in this and ⁓ you, well, actually it's like, no, no, no, just tell me. Like we're all.

We're all grownups here. Let's ⁓ speak plainly.

Kelsey (30:03)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's part of the condescension that you mentioned earlier. It's just, no, tell me the facts, tell me what's going on, give me the information, but don't treat me like I am less than or inferior. Yeah, absolutely. Emma, what about you? How do you prefer people communicate to you?

Emma (30:25)
I mean, why? love context and why is like crack for me. Like if you come at me with like what you're gonna do, I'm like, ⁓ it's not like super interesting to me. The why and like ⁓ the people stuff or the history. I do like a history lens. Like why was it done before? And like it adds flavor and context to the story.

feel like there's depend, like it just depends. Sometimes you want bluntness, sometimes you want... like if I'm in a safe space, like I pride myself on creating safe spaces, so like if I have a safe space then then there's a little bit more freedom to be me and if I don't feel like that's there then you're gonna get a different

kind of Emma who might need to process on the back end, right? So there's that caveat there.

yeah, I hope that's enough. I that's enough. It depends, like it just depends.

Kelsey (31:30)
Yeah, that's great.

Marshal (31:34)
makes me want to edit my response a little bit because I want that can you speak what I want it with the context and plain speak doesn't mean just say one thing and leave it means tell me what's happening tell me why ⁓ don't tell me these like ⁓ we asked so-and-so to do this instead of you because we figured you're so busy it's like no we we actually like how so-and-so does it better than you do

Emma (31:36)
Hahaha

Marshal (31:58)
And here's why, because they do X, Y, and Z where you do A, And great, that's okay, that's fine. But just tell me that straight up as opposed to beating around the bush with it. I agree, that Y is so important.

I think that's probably, I'm gonna circle back, thing that I think sixes do well, because we need the why, ⁓ we're ready with the why for other people. ⁓ Whether it's like a tough decision at work or with the kids at home or whatever else, like we can tell you the what and if that's all that you want, then great, but if you also want the why and you need the why to understand, I can give that to you too because I didn't just take the what,

I asked for the Y and now I can give it to you too. ⁓ I know even for the non-6s that I work with, they really appreciate that and we've ⁓ built a much stronger team because of that too. ⁓ After a long season of people just being told the what and not the why.

Emma (33:05)
That's so true, the like forthcomingness. Like I could give that to you every day. Maybe a little bit easier if it's a safe space and like there's not manipulation going on. But yeah, there's a, I'm asking for it but I'm also willing to give all that too.

Kelsey (33:23)
What happens if you don't agree with the why?

Emma (33:30)
I'm okay holding a differing opinion, but understanding the why. Maybe if it was super controversial, I'd have a harder time with it.

Yeah. But, but knowing the why there's like a little bit more, it's a little bit more settled than not knowing what it is at all. So just that little bit extra of certainty just, just does something, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Kelsey (34:01)
Yeah, okay.

Marshall, any takes?

Marshal (34:06)
Yeah, I actually, I was in a meeting last night where I was told the what. I was given just like a little sliver of like, we're not gonna tell you everything, but we're gonna tell you that we're glad that X, Y, and Z didn't happen. And I probably ruffled some feathers by in the group saying, can we get more context? Like we need to know what's happening.

I think...

if given enough time, I could ask enough whys to understand where they came from and to justify whatever

decision I didn't like or ⁓ disagreement we had or philosophical difference, whatever, because I think there's a reason for why we do what we do ⁓ and why we think the way we think. And whether I agree with you or not, if I can at least get to an understanding of how you came to that decision or that stance or position, whatever else it is, ⁓ I can have a lot more compassion. ⁓

and empathy. ⁓ So I think maybe that's what Emma is talking to about that curiosity. Like I think we can all have enough curiosity to get down to it, just like that ⁓ Ted Lasso, the dart scene, be curious not judgmental. ⁓ Actually have those stickers printed off and given to all of all the people that I work with so that we can try to have that ⁓ assumption of like, hey, let's ask why we're doing this instead of just assuming

well, they're an idiot for making that decision. Didn't they think about XYZ? Obviously they didn't. Instead, I can understand why. And, you know, so maybe, maybe that's not a great thing, because I don't really want to accept the disagreement, or that I don't agree, think, is how you had phrased it, because I think you can eventually get to a why that makes sense to me.

Kelsey (36:08)
Yeah, that's good.

I think for me, the why it is important, but if I don't agree with it, it's much harder for me to get to that compassion for sure. So I was curious if that may be similar for you guys. But it sounds like y'all are much more mature than I am. Congratulations.

Marshal (36:26)
No.

Kelsey (36:28)
we're to end with this question. Emma, what do you like most or best about being a type six?

Emma (36:35)
I know I mentioned safe spaces earlier, but there's something about, like, it just makes me feel so happy. I am a big animal person. And when you bring, when I bring in a feral cat inside and you see them like actually relax and decompress, that kind of is like, wow, you know, I really can provide that kind of safe space. I've seen

I've seen others like open up too when they're in a safe space. So that really feels like a strength of mine. mean, on days where like the world is heavy and the urgency is really strong. ⁓ If I think about like removing all the emotions, like if I unplug that for myself, I get to sadness. And so behind that, there's like this gratefulness that I'm a six.

So there's a backdoor way to get there. yeah, seeing a relaxed cat is like, I'm happy I'm a six.

Kelsey (37:40)
love that so much. I wanted to touch on this, so I'm glad you brought it back up. How would you say you go about creating safe spaces?

Emma (37:51)
don't know. It's like, it's my... So one thing that I've noticed is if I'm out in the world and I've like maxed out, my rubber band has been like overly stretched, going home is like a place where there's no urgency. Like whatever I have to deal with, like I've created the space that I want. ⁓

There isn't, like it's just right. It's the Goldilocks thing, right? If you go out in the world, it's like I'm in a heightened state. And so just in my own space, I've created, like I'm not seeing suffering. Suffering for me just creates a whole bunch of urgency. So there's no suffering. There's peace. There's, yeah, I don't know. guess it's just, it's me. I am a I don't know how to describe it.

⁓ But yeah, I hope that's enough.

Kelsey (38:50)
Yeah, that's

perfect. That is, that's really, I think, an innate gift of yours that one of those things you don't know how to describe because it just is, just simply is. So yeah, thank you for that. Marshall, what about you? What do you like best or most about being a six?

Marshal (39:10)
⁓ As I was thinking about this and hearing Emma answer, I think there's a lot of similarities. ⁓ Because I was thinking about being at work and because it's just the easiest like, boundaryed setting that I can think of, defined setting. I like being at work and having a patient or family member say,

Thank you, you get it, you listened. ⁓ I don't feel like I'm leaving with more questions than answers, or if I do leave with questions, I know that we're in this together. Yeah, think similarly, it's like, Emma, when you said you see a cat that just kind of, like, relaxes into the chair, I love seeing that with patients ⁓ in my office.

and just seeing them like, ⁓ finally, okay, yes, thank you. ⁓ Because we're not rushing. We're not rushing to get the right answer or ⁓ to move an agenda. We're here for purpose and that's to like understand. And because I maybe...

I don't know if it's because we have been misunderstood so much that I really fight against that with other people. And so I think that curiosity helps me ⁓ and helps patients feel understood. And with that, I the other part is they're walking out, was like knowing that ⁓ I've thought of all the contingency plans.

They know what to do if there's an emergency. They know what to do if X, Y, or Z happens, because I've thought it through already. And if there's something that we don't, that we have come across that we haven't planned for, we know that we can make a plan for it. And I do that, I speak that intentionally with patients. I do that less so in real life outside of the exam room. So I think that's why it's harder to see it elsewhere.

I think we do that in other areas of our life too, whether we're conscious of it or not.

Kelsey (41:18)
Something you mentioned, I'm gonna, I said that was the last question. Clearly it's not. I've got another one for you. I'm curious if you find yourself to be protective of your people. And if so, are you as protective of yourself as you are of those people? Emma?

Emma (41:41)
When I was young, I'm the oldest and I have three younger brothers. And I used to have this phrase that like, nobody can touch my brothers, except for me. I can touch them. Yeah, I mean, I, there's a, if somebody else is getting bullied, the ability to like bring out this protector side is so much easier to access than like, if it's just for me.

Like sometimes if it's for me lately, I've been able to access it, but for on behalf of others, so much easier.

Kelsey (42:17)
Okay, Marsha, what do you think?

Marshal (42:21)
Yeah, I'd agree. think. ⁓

I probably have compassion more for other people than I do myself if I see someone else making a mistake ⁓ or doing something that they wish that they hadn't done. Like, you did the best with what you had at the time and what you knew at the time, but I don't often default to that for myself. ⁓ It takes a lot of intentionality. ⁓ And so I think that happens with a lot of people. ⁓

But your question about protecting other people, yeah, there's a strong protective factor because I know why they are doing what they're doing because I know them, they're my people. And so if someone else is gonna be mad at them for doing the what, you don't understand the why. And if only you understood the why.

you wouldn't be responding in the way that you are to them. So I don't have lot of tolerance for people not giving my people that benefit the doubt or what have you. Yeah, probably don't do that for myself as much.

Kelsey (43:28)
That's fascinating. Okay, another final question. Where do you feel like that different, what? Let's try this again. Where do you feel like that differentiates you from the eight who are also very big advocates and protectors?

Emma (43:44)
There's always fear. There's fear. It's like the, think is it Brene Brown who always quotes the man in the arena? Like there's this courage and fear that I don't know if the eight has that. I mean, there's gotta be like a pump up effort to get there. Like I'm a deflated.

You know, but deflated six, you know, maybe some sixes have a very fast pump up feature. I'm envisioning an eight's already pumped up. Like, you don't, you don't gotta get there. You're already there. but, but yeah, it's also this, we never, I don't know where I should have mentioned it before. I think how you want others to communicate with you. ⁓ lately my boyfriend he'll, he'll, he'll

It's kind of like he's pitching a ball to me instead of just like giving me the ball and I can hit it, say baseball. He's giving me an outlier and he'll say, I think this is going to get you upset. And it instantly goes into this like contrarian. Like he's telling me how he thinks I'm going to respond. I'm going to respond different to that. And so it's like, I don't, I don't know how to describe, describe that, but it feels kind of related in that. ⁓

There's a fearful or like a standoff or a something. I don't think it's like an actively... Like I have to respond to my environment. There's not like innate, this is how I respond in this situ. I don't even know how you describe it for innate. Like it's an intuitiveness. Mine, it only comes by knowing what my environment is serving me.

Like a magnet, right? You get the push-pull kind of thing that I don't think eights offer. Is that fair? I went round about on that one, but... ⁓

Kelsey (45:42)
Yeah, I think that's totally fair.

Marshal (45:45)
Yeah.

Kelsey (45:47)
I

think you're spot on with having to pump yourself up. The eight does not probably have to do that. I think that's good. Yeah. Marshall, what do you think?

Marshal (45:59)
I think the eights seem to have a lot more self-confidence than the sixes do. And that whole like up here versus down here thing, ⁓ it looks to me like the eights are always living up here. There is no down here. It's like, know what I know and we're going for it. ⁓

But for me, I'm like, I need to respond up here, but I've got to do all of this, choose Emma's words, pumping out. Like got to work through all of this first. And then once I get to here, then I can duke it out with an eight. ⁓ And I'll feel a lot more confident because I know that I thought through all of those other things that they just had a gut reaction to. We might end up in the same place, but I will feel confident about that. ⁓

Whether that's someone speaking negatively about my family members and ⁓ you don't don't mess with them ⁓ because I can't think of the meme right now exactly but it's like

I think of like movies of high schoolers like hey we're go get in a fight and there's one guy's like wait what's going on and the other guy's like yeah who are we beating up it feels like the eights are the who are we beating up they don't even need to know anything and the sixes are like wait what's going on first who did you start this who who started this why is it who else is around right now do they have knives or is it just fists right now like

I need to know all that context, all the environment like Emma was saying, and if I do, then I'm gonna get there. And we're gonna protect because there still is quite a bit of a justice aspect, it feels like to me.

But.

we have, there is that fear of like, I'm not gonna do the eight thing until I am confident that that's the right thing to do in this situation. And I gotta work myself up to that.

Emma (47:54)
going to the right sizing, you can be undersized, you can be oversized, talking down two, and there's going to be some kind of emotional hangover after that one that I don't know if an eight has that as often. But yeah, there's going to be repercussions for the, I was too much.

Kelsey (48:18)
I think that's a perfect place to end it. Thank you guys. Marshall, Emma, y'all did such a phenomenal job representing the six. I think you gave appropriate context. So well done. Very well done. Thank y'all so much for joining.

Marshal (48:32)
Thank you.

Emma (48:32)
Thank you so

much. Bye.